Game engine with realtime path tracing?

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FarbigeWelt
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Supports Nvidia RTX also for Vulkan?

Post by FarbigeWelt » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:14 pm

Conclusion
We’ve released VK_NVX_raytracing as a developer preview to enable developers to acquaint themselves with RTX-based ray tracing in Vulkan. This can be used together with the latest Vulkan SDK from LunarG, which features support for all of our Turing extensions, to develop ray tracing applications using Vulkan.
Found here
https://devblogs.nvidia.com/my-first-ray-tracing-demo/
By Eric Haines | October 3, 2018
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alexwbc
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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by alexwbc » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:59 pm

The problem with nvidia is while they have the money power to hire pretty much the best minds around, they want to be sure to get their money back: it doesn't matter the revelance of a technology or advancement of the whole industry. They push forth or back being tightly tied on how much money they do straight away.

Intel and AMD are counter examples of opposite companies, but still you can find then both operate in the open source and open standards. Great deal of innovation made by Intel can be found on AMD hardware (and viceversa, think AMD64). While Nvidia logic seems more inclined towards Apple as idea of business.

@otoy: yeah, the overhype their (sometime theorist) tech: but this is quite common: anything in development today for the graphics need to be somewhat "future proof" for the coming years of development. Anyway, the basics are still relevant: with Path Tracing render you can free the processing/ram taken by raster-fix (such as number of textures for single material, LOD etc) and put then in the raw polycount for more detailed object or crowded landscapes.

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FarbigeWelt
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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by FarbigeWelt » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:06 pm

alexwbc wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:59 pm
The problem with nvidia is while they have the money power to hire pretty much the best minds around, they want to be sure to get their money back: it doesn't matter the revelance of a technology or advancement of the whole industry. They push forth or back being tightly tied on how much money they do straight away.
Principally business depending enterprises needs to follow market roules. Currently one could not speak of a free market for integrated circuits because there are only a few companies which can afford the enormous investment required for research and development and production of reliable clean and working prototypes in the low nanometer scale (less than 40 times of the wavelength of visible light).
Even if one is capable to simulates a 2019 at the edge CPU or GPU with all their circuits, before prototyping, with access to libraries for all kind of common base untis (e.g. memory, controllers, computing unitns, prediction units) and experiences to arrange and microcode them, the simulation has limitations especially for the next miniaturization step because of yet unknown interferences .
And if a physical simulation were possible, the simulatiom of billions of electronic units like transistors, capacitors and resistors with all their thermal and electromagnetic properties it required large scaled computing power.
Realizing a piece of hardware consisting of billions of single multilayered elements properly means x times of chemical treatment of perfectly cristallized silicon to get finally what endures thounds of billions charging and thermal cycless.
Therfore I cannot blame any of these companies for their strategy if they have to be profitable and cannot rely on support due to lack of strategic relevance.
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alexwbc
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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by alexwbc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:01 am

While we can't blame companies to make their own business, given the narrow margins they work with (very few misstep and they got immediately in big trouble) we can still find an overall value, among all competitors, that allows us to value, indeed, those who are going towards the interest of innovation of the industry and those who are tightly tie to themselves in sort of blackmail "if I fail, lot of people will fail around my dyeing closed proprietary standards". We saw something alike with HTML5 vs Flash.
We can't judge Adobe/Macromedia to make their own business at best they can: support Apple was quite expensive to them, but Steve Jobs realized that sticking with them would had make the iPhone a sinking ship against Windows Mobile (guess what device would have a more seamlessness/smooth web experience on Internet's content). They ditch flash and fought tyrannously against Flash's support on iPhone: while I don't agree with Apple's practices at all, this allow us to see how direct-immeditate-private interest of companies can hurt the development of modern technologies.
Apple did hurt Adobe before Adobe could hurt Apple.

AMD, a company under the same exact business pressure of Nvidia, offered a quite deal of open standards: Mantle, which was the breeder for Vulkan, and today radeon fireray are examples that come into mind.
Also Intel, which is the Leviathan in the room here, offer a great deal of open standards to innovative various industries around the PC's one.

Focus only on Nvidia as single company in their own industry: yeah, they make only their own job, mind their own business with the tightness of competition and huge costs for development. But if we zoom out, we take a look at the whole scope, we see that the huge amount of money customers spent in Nvidia stuff (which is the biggest piece of cake in the GPU segment) got wasted in a closed fantasy of nvidia themselves: just recently they gave up with gsync after checking up how much customers are open for extortion of extra money for basic common technology (a sort of powered vsync). we see their activity is more parasitic than symbiotic: competence gained with RTX (which are hours over hours of study and work for game engine developer) live and die under the availability of Nvidia's hardware.

CodeHD
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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by CodeHD » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:06 pm

alexwbc wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:41 am
Fully fledged game engine with real time path tracing is out:
http://brechpunkt.de/q2vkpt/

(it's a reimplementation of Quake 2 with a full path tracing one)
By now, this Quake-II-remake has been developed further by Nvidia and was fully released on June 6:

https://www.techspot.com/news/80249-qua ... nload.html

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/ne ... ease-date/

Part of it is availabe for free on Steam, the full version if you own the regular Quake II, which is about 5€ now.
I will give it a try soon, didn't buy an RTX-game yet since I got my new PC... :)

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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by lacilaci » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:31 am

CodeHD wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:06 pm
alexwbc wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:41 am
Fully fledged game engine with real time path tracing is out:
http://brechpunkt.de/q2vkpt/

(it's a reimplementation of Quake 2 with a full path tracing one)
By now, this Quake-II-remake has been developed further by Nvidia and was fully released on June 6:

https://www.techspot.com/news/80249-qua ... nload.html

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/ne ... ease-date/

Part of it is availabe for free on Steam, the full version if you own the regular Quake II, which is about 5€ now.
I will give it a try soon, didn't buy an RTX-game yet since I got my new PC... :)
That demo is pretty heavy on the rtx hardware :D

For example with rtx2070 I'm getting 44 fps at 1920x1200 with maxed out settings. It is also worth noting that denoising plays a BIG role with those rtx games, and also takes a good amount of fps down. with denoiser on I have 44fps with denoiser off I get 54-55. Also it looks terribly noisy without denoiser so you do need it.

But it's more of a tech demo, fully raytraced game. Most games will use rtx for some shadows and reflections, maybe diffuse AO for now. This whole generation of rtx cards seem to be really weak. Even with more powerful rtx cards you'd probably need to stay away from 4K or forget about over 60fps if you want some heavy rtx usage.

CodeHD
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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by CodeHD » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:23 pm

Well, finally back home, wanted to download it from steam yesterday, aaaaand... Quake II is indexed in Germany for violence and I can't download it :evil:

Well, it is open source on GitHub, so perhaps I can still ejoy it by compiling myself 8-)

Thanks anyways for the report, lacilaci, since I also have an RTX2070 I know what to expect ;)

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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by lacilaci » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:22 pm

CodeHD wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:23 pm
Well, finally back home, wanted to download it from steam yesterday, aaaaand... Quake II is indexed in Germany for violence and I can't download it :evil:

Well, it is open source on GitHub, so perhaps I can still ejoy it by compiling myself 8-)

Thanks anyways for the report, lacilaci, since I also have an RTX2070 I know what to expect ;)
I didn't get it from steam, I think it was somewhere on nvidia, and also should be elsewhere as a standalone download

CodeHD
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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by CodeHD » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:15 pm

lacilaci wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:22 pm
I didn't get it from steam, I think it was somewhere on nvidia, and also should be elsewhere as a standalone download
The Nvidia website also doesn't offer it for Germany. (I don't have any VPN or similar available either ;) )
I will try comiling from source, need some experience with this stuff anyways...

kintuX
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Re: Game engine with realtime path tracing?

Post by kintuX » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:00 pm

CodeHD wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:15 pm
The Nvidia website also doesn't offer it for Germany. (I don't have any VPN or similar available either ;) )
I will try comiling from source, need some experience with this stuff anyways...
Opera browser offers VPN out of the box, under advanced settings. Be good, stay safe ;)

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