E-Cycles addon for Blender

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S0rda
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by S0rda » Fri May 17, 2019 5:06 am

Out of curiosity: on BlenderArtist forum, E-Cycles forum ?
https://blenderartists.org/t/e-cycles-a ... 39717/1183
I wanted to post it in the first post, but something came up.

CodeHD
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by CodeHD » Fri May 17, 2019 8:05 am

Dade wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
I'm a bit puzzled by this E-Cycles thing: I'm not sure to fully understand what is going on. I mean, Cycles is APL like LuxCore so the license offers a lot of freedom.
However Blender is GPL and that is big NONONO for this kind of stuff, I'm a bit surprised Blender Foundation didn't used a big legal hammer to hit E-Cycles.
I have the feeling I'm missing something, did Blender Foundation ever expressed an official position about this initiative ?
There is an old article about this here:

https://code.blender.org/2013/08/cycles ... e-license/

And like BYOB said, even GPL would not prevent you from selling it (it even explicitly allows it). Judging by the license's preamble text, it might even be enough to make it available on request:
"You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code."

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Egert_Kanep
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by Egert_Kanep » Fri May 17, 2019 8:21 pm

Some thoughts related to the funding part as I see it.

Donating - I think this is done by people who really apprechiate the hard work and want to just support the developers, because they feel like doing it, which is cool (I encourage others to do it as well, makes you feel good)

But...
As everything is given to users (daily builds, feature requests etc) they might feel that supporting the project might not be neccessary (for them) as they do not recieve any instant benefit from doing so. Everything is already available so no need to invest to get some extra.

Two thoughts for cash grab :D

I like subscriptions, if they are not too pricey :D. It is far more flexible and more convenient. And having a subscription based model opens up ways to introduce bonus content. Let's say LuxCore supporter get's access to latest builds, can participate in feature polls, make github issues, network render etc. Why should a user, who does not contribute, have the same amount of influence like people who support it. No offense, business is harsh

One time purchases are also a thing, but I see them more fit for things like material packs etc. So on that note, maybe a LuxCore material package, with like 50 set up materials that could be purchased. Also along with pbr textures, to make it more attractive as they could be used elsewhere. Any more thoughts?

I know that LuxCore is opensource and free, but these were just my thoughts.

S0rda
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by S0rda » Sat May 18, 2019 6:38 am

It seems that someone was well brainwashed. You buy a car once, and use it, and in addition to taxes, repairs, gasoline, you do not need to pay more. How is it also necessary to pay for the program every new year?

In general, I have the impression that those who write this just want to be in the chair of the main financier and milk people with money.

When I give about $ 20 a year for Google Drive, I clearly know that I give it for some physical volume on the hard drive.

The most famous and popular sculpturing program, zbrash, for its modest $ 900 can afford to give people lifelong updates, while making a big qualitative jerk in a couple of several extreme updates, but do the “others” (ado, autodesk) want to milk people? What's wrong with you? Have you reviewed reviews of games with microtransactions offline (for which these games are hated, like developers (and still, idiots buy them))?

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lacilaci
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by lacilaci » Sat May 18, 2019 4:25 pm

But you have to differentiate between software as a service and subscription in form ecycles does or what I'm suggesting luxcore devs do.

if you look at adobe, adsk, octane... etc. You pay a little but you always have to pay to be able to keep using the software.

If you subscribe to ecycles for example for 16$ or whatever is the price atm. And at any point unsubscribe, you won't loose the ability to use the program. So you can actually buy the thing for 16$ and have it.

What you do loose is future updates, but if you at some point think you'd like some new stuff you can just buy it again for 16$ and again you just bought the software with no limitation.

However if 16$/month isn't really much for you and you want to support the dev, you just keep it subscribed and have newest stuff conveniently ready for you in the library.

On top of that I'm suggesting to keep all the recent stuff on github for anyone to get their hands on and contribute and compile on their own. You would literaly pay only for the comfort to have latest built and maybe some goodies whatever that might be that would serve as an added value for supporting users.

I'm not saying luxcore should turn into saas business.

S0rda
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by S0rda » Sun May 19, 2019 11:09 am

I'm not saying luxcore should turn into saas business.
That is what you offer in all messages in this thread. Stop it. The post is not about that, though.

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lacilaci
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by lacilaci » Sun May 19, 2019 12:49 pm

I don't get your logic about this though:

You mention zbrush as a great example of when software costs 900$ but if luxcore would cost you, let's say 15$ with the possibility to get it for free still, that is a no no for you, that is evil?

tokiop
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Re: E-Cycles addon for Blender

Post by tokiop » Sun May 19, 2019 4:32 pm

Hi S0rda,

you have total right be ok to give $20 to google but not $15 once to a developer doing dev and packaging work, helping test a free software. To me it is very different : on one side you give money to a data exploitation megacorp aiming profits and/or monopoly, on the other you encourage an independent dev investing time in a free ecosystem.

I understand the GPL like B.Y.O.B. : the E-cycles dev has the right to sell his work / binaries if he provides his derivative source code with it. And his users, having the GPL source code, could merge it into upstream blender if wanted (you can do it).

FLOSS is an amazing human achievement, IMO possible because it depends on less physical constraints, but it still depends on the time of a lot of volunteer people who need to live, find sense spending time on it, eat everyday... to be able to contribute to the ecosystem (code, document, patch, test, education material, manage forums or communities, etc..). It must be acknowledged. FLOSS dying or major contributors burning-out can't be our answer as a community.

Like you, I would ideally prefer if all free software was also free as in free beer, to be accessible to all without restriction. But seeing Heartbleed/OpenSSL maintenance difficulties for example, or major FLOSS projects experimenting with various strategies to fund sustained development and support through foundations, crowdfunding, paid services.. Their is an evident question to which we do not have a perfect answer yet.

Regarding Blender, based on readings (from Ton or Pablo Vazquez I think)*, Blender Foundation seems open to people trying to sustain their life and business models around blender. Anyway it is always possible to boycott paying for free software/plugins/tutorials, and let others to contribute financially if the want/can.

On the form, I feel your expression sometime quite direct and judgemental ("stop it", "what's wrong with you", "brainwashed"...), so I can understand why some moderators could not want it on their forum - again, it's their right. Also, if the purpose of your post is to understand and ask for other's point of view, it might not be constructive.

Have a nice day, and big up to all LuxCore contributors :!:

[Edit] *just came across this tweet by Pablo, retweeted by Ton, which clarifies the subject and blender position + interesting discussion.

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