Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

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Racleborg
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Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by Racleborg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:37 pm

With the Luxcore Denoiser, by pausing the render and trying different Histogram Thresholds and Search Radius, some really nice results can be obtained. With the Optix plugin, which appears to be very popular, there are no controls and the results are making my renders look VERY blurry.

So what am I missing/doing incorrectly/not understanding?

Thanks

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B.Y.O.B.
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by B.Y.O.B. » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:48 pm

Can you show some images?
Support LuxCoreRender project with salts and bounties

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lacilaci
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by lacilaci » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:51 pm

Racleborg wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:37 pm
With the Luxcore Denoiser, by pausing the render and trying different Histogram Thresholds and Search Radius, some really nice results can be obtained. With the Optix plugin, which appears to be very popular, there are no controls and the results are making my renders look VERY blurry.

So what am I missing/doing incorrectly/not understanding?

Thanks
Excuse me.. what? Can I see a comparison? Or at least a good looking result from luxcore dneoiser? :D

Optix is a preview quality denoiser mostly, I don't really know why it got too popular for cycles users as cycles denoiser works mostly good(and supposedly is going to get better)
So it is a very good denoiser for some realtime denoising applications, like interactive rendering in max+corona for example. But for final quality it is not too good and If luxcore had a denoiser I would probably not even touch optix....

My personal experience with luxcore denoiser ranges from "unusable results" to "not working" or "refusing to render 4K+ resolution". The only exception being a render so clean that luxcore denoiser has little chance of ruining the image... So that's why I'm curious to see a "nice result" as you mentioned.

Racleborg
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by Racleborg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:53 pm

BYOB

I'm in the middle of creating an upholstered chair - trying out different render and denoise settings. I'll get some images sorted out over the next day or two if that's ok, at the moment it's all a bit disorganised.

Thanks

Racleborg
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by Racleborg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:05 pm

lacilaci,I will sort out some images to post but in the meantime:
My personal experience with luxcore denoiser ranges from "unusable results" to "not working" or "refusing to render 4K+ resolution".
I don't do 4K renders, so obviously I can't say about that.
So it is a very good denoiser for some realtime denoising applications, like interactive rendering in max+corona for example. But for final quality it is not too good
I'm trying Optix for final renders, so presumably I'm using it in the wrong scenario.
The only exception being a render so clean that luxcore denoiser has little chance of ruining the image
So, what sort of quantity of samples should I try and obtain before running a denoiser in order to get a nice clean result?

Thanks

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lacilaci
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by lacilaci » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:14 pm

Racleborg wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:05 pm
lacilaci,I will sort out some images to post but in the meantime:
My personal experience with luxcore denoiser ranges from "unusable results" to "not working" or "refusing to render 4K+ resolution".
I don't do 4K renders, so obviously I can't say about that.
So it is a very good denoiser for some realtime denoising applications, like interactive rendering in max+corona for example. But for final quality it is not too good
I'm trying Optix for final renders, so presumably I'm using it in the wrong scenario.
The only exception being a render so clean that luxcore denoiser has little chance of ruining the image
So, what sort of quantity of samples should I try and obtain before running a denoiser in order to get a nice clean result?

Thanks
I'm using it(optix) in final renders too.. but at ~70% mix with original noisy image usually.

Sample count won't matter much. Basicaly every detail you want to be readable through noise before denoising otherwise bcd will ruin it. So if your textrure for example isn't too visible in the noisy rendering, there is a very good chance bcd will turn it into a nasty blur as there is no feature recognition mechanism.

But go ahead, I'm waiting since forever to see someone actually getting good results from it :D

Racleborg
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by Racleborg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:22 pm

lacilaci
but at ~70% mix with original noisy image usually
I've been doing it a bit this way as well. Good to know I'm not alone on this one ;)
I'm waiting since forever to see someone actually getting good results
The image I'm working on now is just a very very simple animation in which a chair revolves twice (360 x 2) and changes its fabric once. It's nothing special, so its a case of getting something workable, on my old GTX660, without spending forever and a day on it. BCD seems to work better for me, for this, than Optix.

I'll post an image or two up, soon.

Cheers

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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by Racleborg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:02 pm

As stated earlier, this is a very simple scene.

408 Samples.

Looking at the fabric on the front of the arm, you can see that the optix result is quite blurry, whereas the BCD is still clear.

No Denoise, BCD Denoise and Optix Denoise images, attached.
Attachments
408 samples BCD Denoise.png
408 samples No Denoise.png
408 samples OPTIX Denoise.png

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lacilaci
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by lacilaci » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:08 pm

It's like I mentioned, your original image is so clean that probably a 3rd party denoising like in lightroom or whatever would do the trick.
So as all the details/texture is clean and readable even through noise, bcd will do well, especially cause the noisy shadow part doesn't have textures or details in them that could be ruined by bcd.

Optix has clearly problems with random and high frequency patterns and it would definitely need a masking in post (I needed to do that in my latest rendering with fabric shader, where it blurred it too)

Racleborg
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Re: Luxcore Denoiser or Optix

Post by Racleborg » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:36 pm

I don't think that the unprocessed image is particularly 'clean' at all. In fact, it's quite noisy in the shadows.
BCD has cleaned it up nicely, and Optix has made mess of it. And for me, that's the bottom line.

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