It is physically impossible if the light source is not intersectable (i.e. point light, etc.), practically very hard if it is (i.e. a lot of fireflies hard to clear).lighting_freak wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:54 pm One more question from my side. You said SDS paths are impossible to render with BiDir...
But is it really impossible or just hard to render?
Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
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Please upload a testscene that allows developers to reproduce the problem, and attach some images.
Please upload a testscene that allows developers to reproduce the problem, and attach some images.
Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
Look at the underside of the water surface located in the top of this image: http://forums.luxcorerender.org/downloa ... &mode=viewlighting_freak wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:54 pm One more question from my side. You said SDS paths are impossible to render with BiDir...
But is it really impossible or just hard to render?
I'm wondering because the images look quite good, what are you missing?
It should contain a mirror image of the caustics below it, but it does not, apart from a few fireflies. For comparison look at the top of the PGI image: http://forums.luxcorerender.org/downloa ... &mode=view
The sun is an intersectible light source so in theory they can be rendered by Bidir, but not in any reasonable timeframe.
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Caustic Connection Strategies for Bidirectional Path Tracing
Maybe the memo from Pixar published by these authors
Sebastien Speierer, Christophe Hery, Ryusuke Villemin, Wenzel Jakob could be of interest.
They introduce an algorithm that helps BiDir with SDS issues. They claim their algorithm is easy to be implemented in current renderers.
Caustic Connection Strategies for Bidirectional Path Tracing, Technical Memo #18-01
Light and Word designing Creator - www.farbigewelt.ch - aka quantenkristall || #luxcorerender
MacBook Air with M1
MacBook Air with M1
Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
Hello,
I used the PhotonGI cache with B.Y.O.B. settings (radius 0.01) but increased the max number of photons to 100 million. In the terminal, the indicated number of traced photons was 16 million. In the top reflection on the water, we can see the caustics, but on the pool wall, the caustics are less thin than with Bidir.
After that, I decreased the radius (0.001), the indicated number of traced photons was 30 million, and I seems that the image does not improve with the number of samples, it remains noisy. But the caustics are as thin as with Bidir.
Decreasing the radius to 0.0001 did not improve, the number of traced photons was less than with radius=0.001.
Also, I had to deactivate the indirect GI cache, as it seemed to skip the caustics cache creation (always the same message in the terminal indicating 6 million of photons).
For this image (for me it's the final), I mixed the water reflection for the PhotonGI / radius 0.01 image, and the Bidir image in Gimp to have this.
Finally, having played with PhotonGI cache, I would have two feature requests:
- could we save the cache to reuse it without recalculating it, to play with the rendering engines settings for example ?
- could we select the object to target caustics ? In the swimming pool image, only the water surface has to be targeted, not the pool walls, which are big surfaces.
I used the PhotonGI cache with B.Y.O.B. settings (radius 0.01) but increased the max number of photons to 100 million. In the terminal, the indicated number of traced photons was 16 million. In the top reflection on the water, we can see the caustics, but on the pool wall, the caustics are less thin than with Bidir.
After that, I decreased the radius (0.001), the indicated number of traced photons was 30 million, and I seems that the image does not improve with the number of samples, it remains noisy. But the caustics are as thin as with Bidir.
Decreasing the radius to 0.0001 did not improve, the number of traced photons was less than with radius=0.001.
Also, I had to deactivate the indirect GI cache, as it seemed to skip the caustics cache creation (always the same message in the terminal indicating 6 million of photons).
For this image (for me it's the final), I mixed the water reflection for the PhotonGI / radius 0.01 image, and the Bidir image in Gimp to have this.
Finally, having played with PhotonGI cache, I would have two feature requests:
- could we save the cache to reuse it without recalculating it, to play with the rendering engines settings for example ?
- could we select the object to target caustics ? In the swimming pool image, only the water surface has to be targeted, not the pool walls, which are big surfaces.
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Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
Looks great!
WRT caustic cache, lookup max count helps making smoother caustics but also bigger cache.
This thing is really difficult to tweak.
WRT caustic cache, lookup max count helps making smoother caustics but also bigger cache.
This thing is really difficult to tweak.
Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
This inspired me to play around with blenders fluid and the caustics cache and get some own expereince
You can find an animation here:
https://owncloud.gwdg.de/index.php/s/ga5sP1BOBvk5QIh
Took me about 8 hours to render 240 frames. Cache build about 1 minute for each frame. Rendered to 20 Samples per image and used OIDN.
I also rendered some stills, and I also noticed the need for switiching off indirect cache. On the other hand, when the camera is outside the water, it is necessary to have it, as you can see int hese images (from top to bottom: underwater both caches, underwater casutic only, outside both, outisde caustic only). is that expected?
You can find an animation here:
https://owncloud.gwdg.de/index.php/s/ga5sP1BOBvk5QIh
Took me about 8 hours to render 240 frames. Cache build about 1 minute for each frame. Rendered to 20 Samples per image and used OIDN.
I also rendered some stills, and I also noticed the need for switiching off indirect cache. On the other hand, when the camera is outside the water, it is necessary to have it, as you can see int hese images (from top to bottom: underwater both caches, underwater casutic only, outside both, outisde caustic only). is that expected?
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Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
Good choice of point of view, I feel like I need a towel after watching the clip
I've encountered that too and I think it is a bug.I also rendered some stills, and I also noticed the need for switching off indirect cache.
Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
VM is awesome. I think i finally nailed the settings for it.
Scene size is 5m
Camera field of view around 2.5m
I use start radius 0.003
Alpha 0.9996
I need to start with little bias and larger start radius to overcome the lack of MLT.
Also OIDN works with it.
I see if i can go to 10k passes without kernel crash. Some part of VM is locking up CPU real hard, sometimes you can't even move mouse cursor for a minute, and foobar2000 stops playing music.
Here is only small crop:
It's so awesome how light goes in water -> hits wall -> reflects to mirror -> reflects in glass where is mirror -> reflects on another wall -> from there back to water top surface. Here is the scene 25mb:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TPX4nz ... sp=sharing
Scene size is 5m
Camera field of view around 2.5m
I use start radius 0.003
Alpha 0.9996
I need to start with little bias and larger start radius to overcome the lack of MLT.
Also OIDN works with it.
I see if i can go to 10k passes without kernel crash. Some part of VM is locking up CPU real hard, sometimes you can't even move mouse cursor for a minute, and foobar2000 stops playing music.
Here is only small crop:
It's so awesome how light goes in water -> hits wall -> reflects to mirror -> reflects in glass where is mirror -> reflects on another wall -> from there back to water top surface. Here is the scene 25mb:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TPX4nz ... sp=sharing
Re: Swimming pool / Underwater / Caustics
You are likely to run out of memory, try to check the memory usage.