LuxeedRay opensource renderer

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Sharlybg
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LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:49 pm

It is an idea i have seen quite sometime now. I grow up as an opensource CG artists with the old blender 2.4x series and its quirky UI. And at this period what made blender amazing was the kind of great result you can achieve with it. How on earth such a photoreal image could pop up from this free 8mb package and its uggly grey UI. you start diging on the Web and you find that most of the Best blender pro artists didn't even use the integrated Blender render engine :roll: . and because ??

Luxrender
Yafaray
Mitsuba

You start to learn and test with one of them and suddenly the realism gap skyrocket like crazy. It was amazing it was the good old days.Even the 1 Day rendertime didn't look to crazy for such quality at this time. Now thing a quite different. Blender have (E)Cycles(X) and eevee integrated even AMD give a free Prorender engine and octane is free for single GPU. Blender fondation is supported by big industry names like AMD/INTEL/NVIDIA/Facebook/ EPIC game / Ubisoft .........

In the other side Other opensource project who made Blender such a good alternative for lot professional back in the days just struggle alone to survive.

Mistuba renderer : Always a laboratory not designed for production

Applesseed render : Last release is from September 2019 with extremelly small community https://appleseedhq.net/2019/09/21/appl ... eased.html

Yafaray : Even the website isn't accessible now and lastest release is almost 12 month old https://github.com/YafaRay/Core/releases/tag/v3.5.1

Yes Luxcore project situation is far better :

Luxcore is constanly moving forward (almost like a miracle ) With:

___ blender plugin
___Maya and Max Plugin
___Integrated shader and 3D library
___Powering Felixrender : https://felixrender.com/home
___ Also in Vectary software as vectary photon : https://www.vectary.com/3d-modeling-new ... ry-photon/
___Supported on Render farm like :
3Scloud https://3sfarm.com/luxcorerender/
renderstreet https://render.st/engine-luxrender/

With Luxcore it is clear that the potential is great. But imagine what it will be like to have 3 major opensource rendering project like Luxcore / Yafaray / Appleseed Joining force for the best :idea:

1__As a Luxcore user how do see a possibility like this ?
2__ As a Developer is that make sense or please you if you receive proposal to join force with another project ?
3__ As anyone what do you think make Opensource project to not make such kind of move ?
4__ What can encourage a Dev team to accept such a move ?

Feel free to just give your opinion on this let's just have a think , it is free ;)
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Dez!
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Dez! » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:56 am

That's an interesting name for LuxeedRay!
1) It seems to me that merging with others would deprive Luxcore of its exceptional "picture". Those magical, magical 10-20% "crispness" and "tinkle", clarity and clarity of renderings that distinguish Luxcore from others.
On the other hand, I would suggest working with AppleSeed. Their team has something to give Luxcore - a much faster viewport.
To be honest, as soon as AppleSeed makes CustomNormals and builds for Linux, I'll be strongly considering what to use next. So much of Luxcore's Viewport slows me down, and so much of AppleSeed is close to the crispness of rendering that I value so highly in Luxcore.

All I've heard about Yafarai and Mitsuba is that Mitsuba can produce very cool results. But I've never seen a working version of this rendering.
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Sharlybg
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:00 am

Thanks for your comment on this subject. In terms of collaboration I mean all the Devs and community just for example decide to work on one of the project intead of working separetly. And Luxcore seem to be the best starting point for a new Union.
Put it clearly if we can manage to get Appleseed and yafaray guys on board for a single project with a clearly define roadmap and goal starting with Luxcore wich is from my POV the most advanced and popular of the three.
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Dade
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Dade » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:12 am

Sharlybg wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:00 am
In terms of collaboration I mean all the Devs and community just for example decide to work on one of the project intead of working separetly. And Luxcore seem to be the best starting point for a new Union.
If you want to unify all developers work, the candidate project is Cycles for some obvious reason (it is basic logic).

Many years ago, Terrence "Radiance" Vergauwen (LuxRender project leader at the time and than developer of Octane) had the same idea. He proposed to YafaRay people to join the projects. As usual, the idea was good but the execution was terrible: the proposal looked like an hostile takeover and the answer was something along the line: "F*ck off !".
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Dade
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Dade » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:19 am

Sharlybg wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:49 pm
Now thing a quite different. Blender have (E)Cycles(X) and eevee integrated even AMD give a free Prorender engine and octane is free for single GPU. Blender fondation is supported by big industry names like AMD/INTEL/NVIDIA/Facebook/ EPIC game / Ubisoft .........

In the other side Other opensource project who made Blender such a good alternative for lot professional back in the days just struggle alone to survive.

Mistuba renderer : Always a laboratory not designed for production

Applesseed render : Last release is from September 2019 with extremelly small community https://appleseedhq.net/2019/09/21/appl ... eased.html

Yafaray : Even the website isn't accessible now and lastest release is almost 12 month old https://github.com/YafaRay/Core/releases/tag/v3.5.1
Add Blender integration with Corona, Octane, Redshift, Renderman, etc.

Actually all the Blender integrations are more or less dead. Someone may argue that Blender is a hostile environment for anything not coming from Blender formation.
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Sharlybg
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:34 am

If you want to unify all developers work, the candidate project is Cycles for some obvious reason (it is basic logic).
The idea isn't to remove diversity from the opensource CG tools. Instead regroup project with simillar philosophy so that the resulting inified project become stronger and futur proof more attractive instead of slowly died like it is already the case for some of them.Cycles as a different philosophy compared to Lux and Appleseed for example and difference can be easilly see in they respective output. Cycles isn't mean to have such a strong focus on realism and advanced rendering Algo.
Many years ago, Terrence "Radiance" Vergauwen (LuxRender project leader at the time and than developer of Octane) had the same idea. He proposed to YafaRay people to join the projects. As usual, the idea was good but the execution was terrible: the proposal looked like an hostile takeover and the answer was something along the line: "F*ck off !".
The current Yafaray situation and maybe softer negotiation can lead to better result. Opensource is about collaboration. Even in realworld human manage to build rocket plane or Space station together. I mean it deserve a try if it look like a good idea it should be tested.
Someone may argue that Blender is a hostile environment for anything not coming from Blender formation.
What i'm concerned about Is the projects itself. I mean the unified engine can still exist with stronger fondation outside of blender if needed even if i think we will not have to move so far. And blender integration is improving also ...

It is already good that you see it as a Good Idea that require better execution ;)
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by daros » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:55 pm

Sounds like a great idea to me. As always, when you want to group more subjects under a single hat, you have to define a manifesto where you define and prioritize the objectives in the short and long term. If we could define a draft of the manifesto here, among the small lux community, we could have something to present to other realities and modify, extend and complete it together.

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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Dade » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:21 pm

Sharlybg wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:34 am
Cycles as a different philosophy compared to Lux and Appleseed for example and difference can be easilly see in they respective output. Cycles isn't mean to have such a strong focus on realism and advanced rendering Algo.
Actually, Appleseed is far more similar to Cylces than Lux: more focus on animation and specifically toons animations. Appleseed has been used for toons animation for French TV, something like that. All Blender Movies has been about toons animations, etc.
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Dade » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:34 pm

daros wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:55 pm
Sounds like a great idea to me. As always, when you want to group more subjects under a single hat, you have to define a manifesto where you define and prioritize the objectives in the short and long term. If we could define a draft of the manifesto here, among the small lux community, we could have something to present to other realities and modify, extend and complete it together.
There should be some clarification about open source before talking of objects:

Years 1990+ => I was working on Mesa (OpenGL-like library) and it was a very small community. Few university students, some SGI employers, etc. We were tagged as a bunch of communist (Microsoft executives cit.). It was the open source prehistory.

Years 2000+ => I was working on LuxRender and we were 15-20 developers scattered around the world. The major problem was to find a time for the weekly meetings. It was 8:00 am for the Brazil guy and late night for the one in New Zealand. They were the open source green days.

Years 2020+ => Blender Foundation has 1.3 millions euro budget. 25% coming from Epic alone. 75% of the all budget from companies. Open source is a business.

Before talking of a software manifesto, some one should clarify me what model can sustain open source development now: I'm quite puzzled by the current situation. I'm not sure what is sustainable and what is not.
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by JulianoLisboa » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:19 pm

Hello friends... I don't agree with this union, there will be many people owning the project, I think that everything to work out has to have a leader. And in this merger who would it be? What is the dominant project? Because everyone will want to favor yours. A Brazilian saying is that: "a dog that has many owners, dies of hunger."
If any other project has something interesting I believe it would be better to try reverse engineering or seduce the developer to come to luxcore. I tried to test Appleseed and I didn't like it, I didn't see a big difference in viewport speed either, I'm going to test Yafaray just to get an opinion, but I'm happy with the direction Luxcore has taken. I just think that dissemination and teaching could be improved, I'm a graphic designer and I can help in some way. I am available.

Best Regards.

Juliano Lisboa

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