LuxeedRay opensource renderer

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Sharlybg
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:58 pm

Years 2020+ => Blender Foundation has 1.3 millions euro budget. 25% coming from Epic alone. 75% of the all budget from companies. Open source is a business.

Before talking of a software manifesto, some one should clarify me what model can sustain open source development now: I'm quite puzzled by the current situation. I'm not sure what is sustainable and what is not.
I don't think the current world situation allow anyone to work like this without a decent support.
That is quite the feeling i have too about this new era. So if it become a Business it is far harder to stay alive without a clear strategy for the Futur. The current CyclesX project Will make things even harder for the Luxcore Project to grow.
We can't stay for decade as a potential super software project without getting to the level where it become healthier for Devs and Users. That new step require so move to be done.
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Sharlybg
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:07 pm

JulianoLisboa wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:19 pm
Hello friends... I don't agree with this union, there will be many people owning the project, I think that everything to work out has to have a leader. And in this merger who would it be? What is the dominant project? Because everyone will want to favor yours. A Brazilian saying is that: "a dog that has many owners, dies of hunger."
If any other project has something interesting I believe it would be better to try reverse engineering or seduce the developer to come to luxcore. I tried to test Appleseed and I didn't like it, I didn't see a big difference in viewport speed either, I'm going to test Yafaray just to get an opinion, but I'm happy with the direction Luxcore has taken. I just think that dissemination and teaching could be improved, I'm a graphic designer and I can help in some way. I am available.

Best Regards.

Juliano Lisboa
The problem isn't what appleseed or yafaray look like currently. the 3 mentioned project here share some simillarities in term of community support and financial support as well as developement pace. Currently Luxcore look Alive but what will happen if you loose the single core Dev of your main Renderer ?
I always say that it is not healthier.Do anyone find the fact that we have only one core Dev for Luxcore healthy and futur proof ?
No one will change the problem for us. As a community we have to think and find solution the issue.
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TAO
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by TAO » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:12 pm

That's a really hard topic to comment on, I think "Dade" already think of every possible solution that we all can think of. Maybe it was a bit better if this conversation was in the private developer's forum. I think any good project needs a public face, someone has enough time to show off the project, make plan for meetings, answers the others questions, etc. For example, YouTube bloggers already suggested that they want to speak with the LuxCore team and the LuxCore team did not respond to them. Without public face that wok on such things we can not attract more peoples, so developers and other techs see this interest and coming to us. I know the developers, specially main developer here does not have enough time for such things, as we all have other jobs.
I do not believe collaboration with the other teams is that easy too, because I'm already working with one of the other renderers that mentioned in this conversation, and they have problems with maintain the existing code at the moment, imagine what will be look like to recreate or mixing with other renderers. That's not that easy, also, managing this kind of team will be a hard thing to do.
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Sharlybg
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:33 pm

At least if it is hard to convince other struggling project to join a more alive one and drop an inevitabbly dead project. We as current active community should discuss about the futur of the project.
We need to have a Plan of what we need to improve the current situation.
in the past we made a plan to rebuild Luxrender into Luxcore. It was a plan to reborn and survive and it work pretty well i will say.

__We have more interest than the old Luxrender
__ More update
__ More active users
__ More tutorial
__ better gallery
__ Even a Shader and 3D assets library

But this was a plan to reborn and survive. We need to retalk about what we need for the futur. I don't know what is planed for the futur and how we want to achieve that. What is the responssability of each involved part so that we move forward efficiently knowing what the target.
OR
We should keep expecting a miracle ? I really want to know what we are doing to reach wich goal a bit of organisation communication.
Last edited by Sharlybg on Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TAO
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by TAO » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:37 pm

Sharlybg wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:33 pm
At least if it is hard to convince other struggling project to join a more alive one and drop an inevitabbly dead project. We as current active community should discuss about the futur of the project.
We need to have a Plan of what we need to improve the current situation.
That's a good idea to talk about. Of course, if everyone agrees and feel this is getting somewhere.
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Dez! » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:42 pm

JulianoLisboa wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:19 pm
I tried to test Appleseed and I didn't like it, I didn't see a big difference in viewport speed either
Here is a comparison scene showing how close Luxcore and Appleseed are to each other:

AppleSeed (500 semples, 6 min, CPU)
https://imgur.com/sROadaV

Luxcore (500 semples, 17 min, CPU)
https://imgur.com/pbHVMJu

And here's how the viewports work:
AppleSeed: https://youtu.be/KhD8Row_IOs
Luxcore: https://youtu.be/gtTvbcBlpj8

Given that AS has cryptomate and Lux does not, there is a question about the relevance of working with Lux now.
What future are you talking about?
I'm shouting until the end - until there is no bevel node, cryptomate, and fast viewport, Lux can only be handled by extreme fanaticism. There are very few of us, fans who are willing to pay their time for this 10% better result than Cycles. So few that there is no way we will give the future. We can't even scrape together adequate appreciation at Bounty.
Lux is only holding on by the work of the past - by causticism. Most of the renders are for their sake.
The other half are interiors, but they were good in Luxrender before.
From the Luxcore 2.0 period to today's 2.6, nothing has come along that would attract more users.
The future can only be at the expense of new users. But there will be very few of them as there are no basics.
I have a lot of faith in our developers. And I wish them bright days full of life.
I believe that they will find a way out.
But I don't believe that such a small community will be able to help them.
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Sharlybg
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:34 pm

Sure Luxcore a great render engine. And even in it current state it always look promising.
The issue is that we are always playing the catch up game with competition. And as time progress it become harder and harder for people to find the switch relevant. We do have good feature since 2.0 of course.

___ Light tracing
___ RTX accelaration and optix
___ caustics cache
___ Light group node

The impact of these feature are more or less visible depending on your types of work. In your case it is less visible but for those in jewellery or archviz it is amazing.

The issue is that each time the delay we have in development allow competition to make all luxcore benefit useless for a lot of potential luxcore users.

Cycles x will have caustic of all sort without cache meaning you can animate it also.
Cycles x will have path guiding wich is superior to gi cache
And in my private test it surpasse Luxcore Gi cached solution with simple brute force by 30% in the hilton pattaya interior scene.
So imagine that plus path guiding and cacheless caustics.

So it about what we want as a community and what each is ready to do to reach the goal we should setup for the futur of the engine. Without a plan it is going to crash.

Edit


Sure it look unfair. A kind of Davide versus Goliath fight. But what to do fight or give up ? No matter the answer every people involved in the project must know it and set they path acvordinglly a forever blind game will help no one.
I think there is still big hope but we have to work for it.
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Sharlybg » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:01 pm

And it is not about us only everyone is moving ass to get level to this new era where you h1ve to face things like that :
https://youtu.be/rzjqAgh9bN4
How on earth we can continue without a planification ?
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by TAO » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:38 pm

I do not think you should be worried about the progress of real-time renderers too much, the purposes of the offline renderers and real-time renderers are different. like all other renderers for example with Corona or Arnold you never going to see real-time rendering and you will need a ton of time for animation rendering and they sold out a huge amount of money. Also, the unreal engine projects are million dollars projects and really can not be compared to a free opensource project with a few developers.
bigger things to think about are publicity and popularity if users and industries know your product more you will receive more money and with more money, you can work more on your product. we should work on how to show it more and gain more users.
That's my opinion.
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Re: LuxeedRay opensource renderer

Post by Dade » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:05 pm

Dez! wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:42 pm
Here is a comparison scene showing how close Luxcore and Appleseed are to each other:
There is the little detail they don't support GPU rendering ... at all: we win because they can not even show up for the match.
Dez! wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:42 pm
I'm shouting until the end - until there is no bevel node, cryptomate, and fast viewport, Lux can only be handled by extreme fanaticism.
You are confusing what you need with what most people need: it is a common mistake. Actually, it is quite hard to understand what most people really need. Otherwise we would be very very very rich.
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