Ok.
Disney BRDF material
Re: Disney BRDF material
As I know Disney roughness = sqrt(glossy roughness), so it could be easily computed.
It would be better to keep the opportunity for creative control IMHO.Disney material already includes a metal component so it doesn't make any sense to mix with metal (or glossy2).
Re: Disney BRDF material
I'm digging out some old stuff here, but I'd like to ask if you remember what these outputs were back then that you investigated? Was it just the things discussed in this thread like front-backside or the speculartint? Or something else? I saw nothing obvious in the commit history.
I am continuing here from this thread. I have tried to recreate the demo plot from the 2012 paper. This is the closest I have come by now, using the most similar HDRI I found:
But it is difficult to know if it corresponds exactly as they don't mention what the other parameters are...
What I do observe is that the "Fresnel-halo" is very pronounced in LuxCore. Exemplified also by a specular halo that is presenent with the base color set to black:
So my second question besides that at the top: Does anyone know of any more references for how the Disney material is supposed to look?
Re: Disney BRDF material
The wonderful world scientific papers, 90% is just ru**ish, the other 9% may be interesting but they don't provide even half of the required information, the 1% is done right. Providing sample code should be the bare minimum requirement to publish a paper.
I don't even see the post where I wrote that statement, I don't remember, it has been nearly 2 years.CodeHD wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:52 pm I'm digging out some old stuff here, but I'd like to ask if you remember what these outputs were back then that you investigated? Was it just the things discussed in this thread like front-backside or the speculartint? Or something else? I saw nothing obvious in the commit history.
There is the original paper and the 2x presentations at Siggraph(s) but the best source of information has always been: https://schuttejoe.github.io/post/disneybsdf/
Cycles sources may be a place where to look too. Intel OSPRay should have an implementation too.
Re: Disney BRDF material
Thanks for the quick response Dade!
Strictly speaking, that "paper" is just labelled "course notes" on th website. It most certainly is not a peer-reviewed publication. I also find it a bit odd. It starts off with introducing this MERL database (which doesn't seem to be online any longer), then discusses what it shows at grazing incidence , and afterwards mentions that all data beyond 75 degrees "appears to be extrapolated"
Fair enough, and I expected that. Just took a shot at asking
Those are some good suggestions! I did think of Cycles already but not OSPRay, and that Moana-website I was also not aware of.Dade wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:43 pm There is the original paper and the 2x presentations at Siggraph(s) but the best source of information has always been: https://schuttejoe.github.io/post/disneybsdf/
Cycles sources may be a place where to look too. Intel OSPRay should have an implementation too.
Re: Disney BRDF material
CodeHD, if you want something asked by a lot of people, add the support for specular transmission to current Disney code (i.e. SIGGRAPH 2015 Disney material extension). However the (very fake) SSS support described in 2015 doesn't make very much sense in Lux context so you may want to skip that.
Re: Disney BRDF material
Yes, given how much I already started reading into this topic I can try to do it.
The Moana-article you linked seems to describe 2015 as well, so there is example code. It also already provided me with some explanation for questions I had from the current LuxCore implementation.
I have briefly looked at cycles, I think it is also 2015 already (?) And there is definitely a difference with how it handels the fresnel effect for metals. I.e. Cycles actually allows to have a completely black shader.
The Moana-article you linked seems to describe 2015 as well, so there is example code. It also already provided me with some explanation for questions I had from the current LuxCore implementation.
I have briefly looked at cycles, I think it is also 2015 already (?) And there is definitely a difference with how it handels the fresnel effect for metals. I.e. Cycles actually allows to have a completely black shader.
Re: Disney BRDF material
Be careful, Cycles has extend Disney material in multiple way including using no GGX model for micro-facets (something never even vaguely mentioned by Disney people).
Re: Disney BRDF material
Do you refer to the "Multiscatter - GGX" ?
I ask this because I only see two models in the cycles principled shader, GGX and Multiscatter-GGX.
Anyways, I'm not sure about the conversation going on here right now XD
But an update to Principled 2015, Principled Hair and Principled Volume would be very convenient
Right now there are some tasks that are overly complicated to achieve and control in LuxCore regarding shaders IMHO
- Proper Hair shader, useful for hair or fur (important not just for characters, but also for rugs, cushions and a variety of things)
- SubSurface Scattering in an easy way to control it, the cycles example (similar to others like Corona, Arnold, etc...) is a good one, since it's easy to understand and easy to control, and don't require to give transparency or transmission to the material and mix it with an inside volume.
- Multiscatter Acid glass, AFAIK we don't have multiscatter, so it's hard to achieve a proper acid glass effect.
Those two things are specially difficult right now, the principled volume would be convinient because it's easy to work with, but so far it's not that hard to achieve a very good volumetric result with LuxCore.
I ask this because I only see two models in the cycles principled shader, GGX and Multiscatter-GGX.
Anyways, I'm not sure about the conversation going on here right now XD
But an update to Principled 2015, Principled Hair and Principled Volume would be very convenient
Right now there are some tasks that are overly complicated to achieve and control in LuxCore regarding shaders IMHO
- Proper Hair shader, useful for hair or fur (important not just for characters, but also for rugs, cushions and a variety of things)
- SubSurface Scattering in an easy way to control it, the cycles example (similar to others like Corona, Arnold, etc...) is a good one, since it's easy to understand and easy to control, and don't require to give transparency or transmission to the material and mix it with an inside volume.
- Multiscatter Acid glass, AFAIK we don't have multiscatter, so it's hard to achieve a proper acid glass effect.
Those two things are specially difficult right now, the principled volume would be convinient because it's easy to work with, but so far it's not that hard to achieve a very good volumetric result with LuxCore.
Re: Disney BRDF material
Yes I think the multiscatter-GGX is the feature in question. I read through the original GGX paper now, and started with the Disney 2015 paper. They do mention multi-scattering as well, but rather as a discussion point, and apparently the "Sheen" component takes some compensating function for it (but with a different distribution). It looks to me like a good idea to include a multi-scatter model, I just have to be careful about energy conservation then.