The flickerfree animation challenge

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Fox
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:17 am

Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by Fox » Tue May 12, 2020 3:15 am

mischterlampe wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:54 am
So I decreased the lookup radius of the caustic cache and made it 10 times smaller and the result I get with a value of 0.0005 m is good.
It takes forever, almost 10times. And this is just a 1/3 of the resultion. So at the end 1 frame will take 10min*3*3=180min. Uhh.
Looks like the Oidn denoises better small radius even for the BiDirVM.
And the smaller normal map scale of 0.1 on the wall, denoises also better.

Code: Select all

            "bidirvm.lightpath.count": 131072,
            "bidirvm.startradius.scale": 0.00005,
            "bidirvm.alpha": 0.999,
64 spp
https://streamable.com/r1dujj

lighting_freak
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by lighting_freak » Tue May 12, 2020 4:34 am

Hi,
epilectrolytics wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 8:08 pm
Knowing the average luminance of the image to render is the only Metropolis requirement
Why does the sampler need this? Isn't it a bit strange to have the result as an prerequisite? What about a MonteCarlo sampling strategy? Does it also need the average luminance?

BR
OS - Windows 7 X64
CPU - Intel CORE i7
GPU1 - Variants of notebook card from nVidia
GPU2 - Variants of notebook onboard card from Intel
Lux - Latest possible relaease

mischterlampe
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:22 pm

Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by mischterlampe » Tue May 12, 2020 7:42 am

Here is the caustic only rendering with 100% cpu for light tracing and only sun.

https://streamable.com/9cx6ia

mischterlampe
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:22 pm

Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by mischterlampe » Thu May 14, 2020 6:16 am

Dade wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 pm

I may have spotted the chain of events that is the source of the problem.
Because it is my birthday :mrgreen: , I would like to ask you what your plans are about this issue. I know that you have a lot of tasks to do, so I just want to know if you are working on that or not? My hope is still alive.

epilectrolytics
Donor
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Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by epilectrolytics » Thu May 14, 2020 9:04 am

Dade wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:19 pm
Luminance is not constant across different frames.
Oh I see :(

But I have another stupid idea :mrgreen:

From what I see the problem is to correctly gauge the average luminance from a very short warmup run.
In my experience light tracing is always way faster than eye tracing, when run on all cores it converges in seconds where the GPUs needs minutes.
If extending the randomly sampled warmup run substantially (like 10x or more) would help with getting better estimates of the average luminance necessary for the metropolis run this would not slow down OCL rendering because light tracing is always finished earlier.
It would only look strange in the viewport where for the first minute or so the added light pass has bad quality because of random sampling before metropolis magic kicks in.

There could be a problem with SDS-cache though if that needs good light pass quality from the start.

Fox
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:17 am

Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by Fox » Thu May 14, 2020 1:20 pm

With BlendLuxCore from may 13, there is still little flickering, but maybe longer render would cure it.
If you make floor perfect mirror, there is strong sun spot on the wall, but with roughness textured and bumped, it's very random.
Same with the shadow of decorative branch in vase, which reflects from black plastic to wall, when the black plastic is very rough, then the branch shadow flickers on the wall.

Random
Light Rays 90%
256spp (Ryzen 3900x ~2.5 min)
Caustic Cache with periodic update: 0.25, 0.003 m, 10d, 1, 99.571, 0.001 m

https://streamable.com/gf2a59

mischterlampe
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:22 pm

Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by mischterlampe » Sun May 17, 2020 8:25 pm

I found a solution :D

It is not the render setting or coding solution, but a post production solution.
In this case I don't mind, because the rendering goes to after effects anyways and the result is how i wanted it to be.

I used Neat Video, a plugin to mainly reduce noise, but also to reduce flickering in lamps, for example.
https://streamable.com/rgfkp1
It takes about 20sec. to get it set up. Boom.

Thank you all guys for your tips, and, of course, it would be better, if the renderer can produce such a result by its own.
I don't know if it is possible to do a pre-animation rendering, were just the brightness of such reflections is calculated and averenged, e.g. for 4frames.


PS: I spent the money to the luxcore team.

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B.Y.O.B.
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Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by B.Y.O.B. » Sun May 17, 2020 10:46 pm

mischterlampe wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:25 pm
I used Neat Video, a plugin to mainly reduce noise, but also to reduce flickering in lamps, for example.
https://streamable.com/rgfkp1
It takes about 20sec. to get it set up. Boom.
I wonder if the result would improve if you would de-flicker a caustics-only rendering (cpu render, 100% light paths).
You could then add it on top of a render without caustics.

lighting_freak
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: The flickerfree animation challenge

Post by lighting_freak » Thu May 28, 2020 2:42 pm

Hello all,

Almost one year ago I had almost same troubles but with BiDir and Metropolis:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1198&p=14635#p14635

Unfortunately it wasn't resolved during that time.
If really the metropolis sale causes this, will it appear with Sobol or Random as well?

What about pure MonteCarlo sampling if one don't care of time but of quality and correctness?

Thanks for keeping this thread alive until a real solution is found.

BR
OS - Windows 7 X64
CPU - Intel CORE i7
GPU1 - Variants of notebook card from nVidia
GPU2 - Variants of notebook onboard card from Intel
Lux - Latest possible relaease

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