Interior Studio

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B.Y.O.B.
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by B.Y.O.B. » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:02 pm

lacilaci wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:48 pm
1.You use visibility map, no portals right?(I don't know if there are portals in luxcore anyway)
You could call the visibility map an improved version of portals (it basically auto-computes where to place the "portals").
See https://wiki.luxcorerender.org/Visibility_Map
lacilaci wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:48 pm
2.On main window/glass objects do you use some sort of special options to avoid complex calculations?(for example I disable shadows and glossy rays for glass panes with cycles in such situations to greatly boost rendertimes without much visual differences)
There is an "Architectural" option on the glass material node.
The description/tooltip is:
Use for thin sheets of glass like window panes, where refraction does not matter
(skips refraction during transmission, propagates alpha and shadow rays)
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lacilaci
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by lacilaci » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:22 pm

Interesting, how does it work when I have in the frame 50% exterior but also look into interior/building. Would the visibility map favor complex GI in interior or somehow magicaly balance the sampling?

And can't I have both refraction and reflection but no shadow/GI samples from glass?

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Sharlybg
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by Sharlybg » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:41 pm

2.On main window/glass objects do you use some sort of special options to avoid complex calculations?(for example I disable shadows and glossy rays for glass panes with cycles in such situations to greatly boost rendertimes without much visual differences)
sometimes i set windows glass to null if they appearence didn't impact i typical view.
3.Did you try to render 4K or larger resolution and if yes what would be the rendertimes then?
yes but for outdoor only. currently pure Path tracing is a bit inefficient when it come to render Heavy indirect lighting scenario case like indoor. The reason why we need maximum support and donation to make Light cache part 2 a reallity. This feature will allow us to render interior really fast even on CPU.
4.Is BiDir really faster than normal pathtracing in luxcore?
The problem with Bidir vs path is that they both have different pro and con. But most of the time path opencl on a good GPu will outperform bidir on well done indoor project.
But finally caching feature in the range of what we see in corona is the correct solution for interior render.
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by B.Y.O.B. » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:42 pm

lacilaci wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:22 pm
Interesting, how does it work when I have in the frame 50% exterior but also look into interior/building. Would the visibility map favor complex GI in interior or somehow magicaly balance the sampling?
Can you post a 3D model or diagram of what you have in mind? Not sure what you mean exactly.
lacilaci wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:22 pm
And can't I have both refraction and reflection but no shadow/GI samples from glass?
In LuxCore, objects always cast shadows and contribute to GI, you can't turn that off individually.
(You can separately limit the path depth of diffuse, glossy and specular rays in some of the engines like Path, but that's probably not what you mean)
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by lacilaci » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:04 pm

B.Y.O.B. wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:42 pm
lacilaci wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:22 pm
Interesting, how does it work when I have in the frame 50% exterior but also look into interior/building. Would the visibility map favor complex GI in interior or somehow magicaly balance the sampling?
Can you post a 3D model or diagram of what you have in mind? Not sure what you mean exactly.
lacilaci wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:22 pm
And can't I have both refraction and reflection but no shadow/GI samples from glass?
In LuxCore, objects always cast shadows and contribute to GI, you can't turn that off individually.
(You can separately limit the path depth of diffuse, glossy and specular rays in some of the engines like Path, but that's probably not what you mean)
Sure, screenshot from blender in attachment. It's a situation where I don't know if portals or visibility map can make good balance.
Scene is currently made for cycles and in blender 2.8. But now that the project is nearing final stage, cycles performance falls apart totally with the addition of not fitting into 6GB Vram and on cpu it's just pain making 4K render on 4770K cpu last about 2+ hours (heavily relying on denoising).

Sorry for kinda stealing the thread to ask stupid questions Sharlybg :D I agree however the only way to make these scenes work efficiently seems to be GI caching of secondary bounces to make cpu rendering fast and to be able to use all system ram as other than cars and product shots don't fit onto gpu memory anyway.

I can't convert this scene as it is 2.8 and that's not backwards compatible. But I'll probably do next personal project using luxcore, meanwhile I'll keep an eye on Sharly's works here cause it seems closest to what I'm doing.
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by B.Y.O.B. » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:14 pm

I doubt that the visiblity map will help much in this scene, and I wouldn't even know where to place portals.
These techniques are good in scenes where the camera is inside the building and most of the visible surfaces receive light through small openings.

At least the visibility map will not make the render slower (portals will do that).

But it would be interesting to test if the visibility map maybe improves the render time even in such an open scene.
After all, half of the HDRI is blocked by the ground and some more is blocked by the trees and house.
If the main light source in the HDRI (e.g. the pixels with the sun) are behind the trees, the visibility map would accelerate the render by preventing the sampling of these pixels.

For a simple test, you could export the objects as .obj or so and re-import them in 2.79b.
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by lacilaci » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:22 pm

B.Y.O.B. wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:14 pm
I doubt that the visiblity map will help much in this scene, and I wouldn't even know where to place portals.
These techniques are good in scenes where the camera is inside the building and most of the visible surfaces receive light through small openings.

At least the visibility map will not make the render slower (portals will do that).

But it would be interesting to test if the visibility map maybe improves the render time even in such an open scene.
After all, half of the HDRI is blocked by the ground and some more is blocked by the trees and house.
If the main light source in the HDRI (e.g. the pixels with the sun) are behind the trees, the visibility map would accelerate the render by preventing the sampling of these pixels.

For a simple test, you could export the objects as .obj or so and re-import them in 2.79b.
Thanks for the answers. I will probably make some tests using parts of the scene in luxcore later. Btw I'm not using hdri, I almost always use sky and sun systems in every renderer. I guess sky object is sampled the same way as hdri right?
Hdri is good only for cars and product shots etc in my opinion...

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Re: Interior Studio

Post by B.Y.O.B. » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:27 pm

lacilaci wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:22 pm
I guess sky object is sampled the same way as hdri right?
I'm not sure.
Regarding visibility maps, yes, but HDRIs are sampled with importance sampling (spend more samples on bright parts of the image), I don't know if this is also done for the sky or if it's sampled uniformly.

Edit: I had a look at the code, the sky light is using importance sampling. So yes, they are sampled very similar.
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by Sharlybg » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:08 am

Some progress : all rendered in 40 mn Pathocl + CPU sobol adaptive renderig 95%.
Sr.jpg

Sr1.jpg
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lacilaci
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Re: Interior Studio

Post by lacilaci » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Adaptive at 95%? Does it give better performance over the default 70%?

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